When this group first started meeting a while back, Joe was in the habit of bringing issues to the table that we often sweep under the rug. Because they can get pretty ugly. But no matter where you go you are still confronted by them.
Then a few years back, Bill and I were talking about the issue of " The church, the arts, pornography, and what is and what is
not pornographic. " In other words, is there a line in the sand or is it really a personal thing. I know what I think, but this is a question for discussion.
As one example I bring forward the sculpture of David. A masters work, carved by masters hands. Truly the best example of marble sculpture for its time and for me in all of history. A sculpture of this richness and design had never been produced in all of history. This scupture is on display in all it's beauty in a major public museum, for all to see. But just the other day I saw a piece on TV that happen to be near this work of fine art, and the TV fuzed over certain areas of the scupture. I understand clearly what had been done for this program, but on the other hand it appears that we live in a world of very mixed messages. And I know that one persons temptation is not anothers. And I also know that we have all fallen short.
I live in a world where art students study the body daily and I'm certain that each has a conflict internally daily to deal with the broad range of emotions and feelings that arise in one self. Some become numb to the study, some are driven mad. I have witnessed both sides.
After talking to my daughter on Saturday , we decided that this would be a cool place to bring up the issue. And let our own feelings known.
This is a real tough subject, but as I understand it " The Edge " is the place to lay it all out for the community of faith.
I personally used an example from the world of sculpture, but I know that this is an issue that crosses thru all the arts.
Open dialogue is very much requested.
15 comments:
I think this is a great place to hash it out, Robert. I remember when the mural of the "naked ladies" on Bank Street in New London went up. There were passionate letters from the editor for months- some calling it art, some calling it porn. I think the answer has something to do with intent of the artist. When God made man, it was his great final work. All the rest was just an environment for man. And in the garden they were naked and unashamed. So sin is the thing that makes it a difficult issue. The body is God's creation- a beautiful thing (depending on how many Lindt chocolates one eats..) I'm interested to see what the other great minds have to say. Phil? Bill?
Thank -you.
This is exactly what I had in mind.
I hope that I have brought up the subject with the correct openess. I too hope that many will be challenged by my throwing this stone at the giant
in the room. As artists I consider this a major deal.
There is also the question of respect and dignity. Yes God created our bodies and they are beautiful..but we live in a fallen world where the enemy has free reign (for now). This verse comes to mind, "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." Matt 7:6 . The enemy would love nothing better than to "trample" Gods beautifull creation. he always takes something pure and Holy and tries to perverse it. Look at child pornography. Is there nothing more pure and innocent than a child on a hot summer day running naked through a sprinkler with a huge smile on their face? I remember doing that as a child, but I would never allow any child I watch to do that this day in age! There are to many people who would take that image and "trample it under their feet". Even Adam and Eve after they had sinned looked at each other in shame and God clothed them. Love protects and we should protect others from being used or treated in any way other than with the upmost respect and dignity, as a creation of the Most High God.
I hope this makes sense...sorry I kinda got carried away!
April
April....great stuff. This is exactly the problem.
The world we live in is different from the world we
grew up in. In art it is a fluid display. It is a conversation between the artist ( image maker) and the viewer. And the artist has to think of the moral issue of how the image will be recieved when viewed. And where it will be viewed. And how it will bless or burn the soul.
Yes, well said, April.
Are we, as artists, responsible for how people react to our art? Joe referred to The Wizard of Oz cult-like following in his sermon Sunday. Did the author intend that? Probably not. Not that dressing up like Dorothy and obsessing over a movie is nessesarily harmful... Okay, I'm not sure that relates to the topic... sorry.
I was rereading my post and the comments, when the last part of that verse spoke to me. About them "turning on you" so not only does the precious get trampled but it comes back and "rends" you. The dictionary says it means to "tear or rip violently" sounds like the enemy, who came to "kill, steal and destroy".
I had to hash out this topic with a photograph that I took of a nude pregnant belly. It was a close up and beautiful in my mind...but the scripture that came up was Rom 14:13 "Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way." So I did not hang it in a show at church as it could cause someone to stumble. We are to put other's first and because of sin we need to be aware of what could cause someone to fall.
Robert, just wanted to mention that you probably doubled our Edge blog readership today by using the word, "pornography." People type that into google now and get us! Usually, we get 18 hits a day. Today we've gotten about 30:)
This is indeed a good place to bring a discussion about this issue. It is as easy to ignore in our present culture as an elephant that has been shoved into a closet. No matter how you try,the rump of that elephant is going to be hanging out of that closet. There is no way to ignore this issue.
It is presently about 1:15 as I write this;which may account for the above bizarre analogy...I pray that it is not viewed as a vehicle to minimize the discussion presented.
I shall continue to mentally chew on this one,Robert...thanks for bringing up this important issue.
Thank-you folks. As a beliver I just think that we do need to go to task with the subjects that affect our daily lives. Just because drugs, sex, and rock and roll sell, it does not make them right. How we use our lives for Gods glory is what matters.
And the knowledge that Jesus can really re-write our life story and make us as pure as a new born child. THAT is the real deal that gives me hope.
And then, what do we do with ourselves after we have given our life to Jesus. Do we just return to the past as if we have just taken a shower. Feel clean for the moment and go back to the mud with the pigs? And this may indeed have to happen over and over again. But I believe that the more we smell the sweet smell of the Lord, he becomes even more real to us. Changing lives does take time and strength. Sometimes it can be instant, but in my life it more often than not comes one step at a time. We are reborn. That means something. Small steps count. It's all about going in the right dirrection.
When we find our selves in a new skin, what do we do with it. My prayer is that
we reach into the life of a brother or sister who needs to trust us and know that we are also real. And that the change in us is real. And that by His love we begin the healing process that can be long and sometimes painful. But through the Lord we have been able to effect change in anothers heart.
I'm thinking maybe the answer lies somewhere in any given situation depending on that situation.The scripture I have in mind was written by Paul where he says "when
I am with the Jews, I become a Jew, when I'm with the gentiles, I become a gentile..." We just need to become more sensitive to the leading of the Holy Spirit and not just assume it's the same every time. Butt crack ain't all bad. Oh man, you will never believe what just happened. My computer is sooooo messed up, there's stuff constantly popping up, would you believe porn just showed. I am soooo grossed out. There's definitely worse things than butt crack. "Scuse me, I gotta go renew my mind
Robert,
Your post has been marinating in my mind. My brain is full and I don't know what to let loose at the moment. The discussion you have opened up has been good.
Thanks for bringing your offering to the table.
have a cup o'joy..
Lynne
i see the issue, for many reasons, as entirely in the eye of the beholder. naked children, no problem. but a problem for some. pregnant tummy- no problem, except for some. i say a lot of weird things, but i bite off most of them, believe it or not, because the listener might be harmed. steve harper is one of the least bent people i know; he can hug people at church who won't let anyone else touch them. to the pure, all things are pure.
judy, watch those porn traps, they're insidious. and God save us from Mapplethorpe, Helms, Tipper Gore, or anyone else who wants to sell me a definition of "art." there will always be some things i just can't look at. like Job, i must "make a covenant with my eyes..." bless youse all, and janet, i do sometimes dress up like dorothy, but only to watch the movie. and besides, red shoes just scream for blue gingham, don't you think?
Mama,
You are right about what you are saying. But lets face it no matter who you are temptations are real.
There are those who know the line where they are just caught hook line and sinker. And there are those who because of the way society is today, we get visually raped but some how close our eyes, turn our head, change channel, look to God to remove the image from our heads and move on.
There is a reason that the Lords Prayer is so simple to understand and so complete. It is like a multi- vit.
It's a writers dream come true. All the fat has been removed. Lord protect ME from all temptation. Period. And it works all we have to do is ask. The problem is that lots of people don't know temptation.
In fact they live daily for it.
As for touch and hugs we all need them. Our society has placed a double standard on touching. I love to put a hand on the shoulder of my older friends. With out that touch the mind plays tricks on us and we forget that we even spent time together. A light soft touch is like the smell of food in your favorite kitchen,
you never forget, and the feeling comes from the deepest part of our souls.
Love each other with all your hearts and minds , and let God handle the rest.
Just to clarify, I wouldn't waste my time defending a Mapplethorpe or any other so-called artist of that ilk. (I would expect them to be one of those pop-ups.) But (there's that word again)I have been through the Louvre and I believe I know what makes the Mona Lisa smile. There is ,however, something about the Pieta that outshines all works of greatness. Something.....
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